Out of the Dark: CPS’s New High School Admissions Test

Lightly edited for readability. Beyond the Test is a conversation, so please check the audio for exact wording.

Matthew Pietrafetta: Hello everyone. Andrew and I are back with another episode of Beyond the Test. And we have a very special guest with us today. We're super proud to introduce to you all Carla Pedersen, who's our executive director of one-on-one, has been our leader for over a decade and leading all of our one-on-one services. And among her many skill sets, she has one particular expertise domain that is particularly relevant today's episode. And that's really helping families navigate the landscape of high school admissions testing. Which is particularly complicated in Chicagoland, and which we'll speak to shortly. But Carla has been leading families through this process, this Byzantine process for over a decade and doing a really great job of it. And there's some new, you know, developments that we want to talk about in this episode, in that particular process of gaining admissions to particularly selective enrollment schools within the Chicagoland area. So we're super happy to have Carla with us today. Welcome Carla.

Carla Pedersen: Thank you for having me.

Andrew Ferguson: Welcome, Carla.

Matthew Pietrafetta: And we'd love to hear a little bit about you know the past state, the past decade of helping families navigate this pretty Byzantine complex high school admissions testing process in Chicago, and then we'll talk about some of the changes and what that means for your continued guidance of families going forward. But just give us a lay of the land. How has it been to be a student and a parent trying to get into a high school in Chicago over the past ten years.

Carla Pedersen: Well, in a word dynamic. You know, there have been many, well, given the time frame, many changes that have taken place over the time that I've been working with middle school students. You know, back when I started over a decade ago, students were taking the NWEA MAP test and then looking at their seventh grade grades in addition to a selective enrollment exam. So they actually had two tests as part of this process. Then, as things evolved, you know, the decision was made to remove the map test, go down to a single test system to make it a little bit more approachable for students and their families. You know, going to an old version of the selective enrollment exam. Then, not too long after that, they decided to take the selective enrollment exam and make it shorter, going to our most recent version where they actually cut out half of the sections of the test, going down just to a reading. Reading comprehension and math exam. And now we're seeing ourselves go back in the other direction toward a longer exam with the PreACT secure with four full sections again. So there have been kind of a constant ebb and flow of how we prepare for these tests and look at these tests, depending on which is up for the year.

Matthew Pietrafetta: And when we're talking about selective enrollment high schools, I founded Academic Approach 25 years ago this July. And that first year, I worked with the first graduating class from Walter Payton. And so not all these schools have been around forever. And folks that, you know, grew up in Chicago a couple of decades ago, some of these schools weren't even options for them. So what's it look like these days when in terms of options that you have for selective enrollment schools?

Carla Pedersen: So at this point we have eleven options. We have Brooks, Hancock, Jones, King, Lane Tech, Lindblom, Northside, Payton, Southside, and Westinghouse. And not to be forgotten, Whitney Young. So, you know, there's not an infinite amount of schools, but at this point we have eleven selective enrollment high schools in Chicago.

Matthew Pietrafetta: That's great. So more options, more choices. And but when it comes to the testing piece, what if you also when exploring your options, you were thinking, okay, maybe a selective enrollment high school, so I have to take this particular exam, but I might want to also apply to a Catholic high school, parochial school, maybe also an independent school. What can it look like for that it's most Byzantine and complex in terms of you're an eighth grader and here's what fall of eighth grade looks like you in t looks like for you in terms of the tests that you'll be taking.

Carla Pedersen: Yeah, in its most extreme, you can be looking at a different standardized test and corresponding application process for each of those schools. So for a parochial school, you'd be taking the HSPT, for an independent school, the ISEE. Perhaps you're thinking about boarding schools as well. You'd be looking at the SSAT. So depending on the combination of schools and often students are looking at some combination of these, they're really tackling not just one test for selective enrollment, but two, three, four exams for their preparation process.

Matthew Pietrafetta: We got to we have to remind our juniors from time to time how much the grass is greener where they are. It's like okay, you're applying to college, SAT or ACT, pretty much anywhere, take your pick, whatever suits you better. And it just sounds a lot simpler.

Carla Pedersen: It's funny you say that because oftentimes when I'm meeting with a middle school family for the first time, I try and anchor in this process is complex and it's stressful, but you're going to be so much better prepared for high school when you're applying to college, it's going to feel like a breeze comparatively.

Andrew Ferguson: In terms of level of difficulty, does this new PreACT 9 Secure fall in terms of all of the tests? Like based on what you know about the exams, I feel like families didn't necessarily, when it was only an hour long and it was only math and reading that I feel like they weren't as nervous about the content of the test as they were about what all that was on the line. But in terms of difficulty now, that changed? Do you think in terms of?

Carla Pedersen: You know, if you're looking at a single skill level, difficulty to difficulty, perhaps not. But the fact is you're doubling the content areas that a student needs to feel comfortable with, or at least skill areas. So I think that does pose a challenge for students because now there's more that they need to make sure they're familiar with, that they've reviewed. So there's the difficulty level and just the sheer breadth of the test. And I think when we think about the breadth of test, that does up the ante for a lot of students where they have to focus on more areas.

Matthew Pietrafetta: Yeah, CPS has shifted to an ACT, basically, instead of what had been for I think back to 1998, had been a homegrown, right, CPS designed exam internally that was kind of like secreted and cloistered and c and cordoned off from the public knowledge no one knew to this major shift, which is, you know. Pending for the fall to a PreACT or like a lower level ACT form that is fully disclosed. We know everything about. We've been teaching for 25 years, English, math, reading, and science. And so while it's while it is, you know, twice as long and there's more subject area you know, expertise that's needed from the student, it is visible and disclosed and public and right. We can see it. We know what it's on we know what's on it. Whereas previously we have been a bit in the dark.

Carla Pedersen: No, absolutely. It's one of those changes where, from my perspective, heading in a great direction for preparation.

Andrew Ferguson: So that's a good transition because I researched a little about what the reasoning that CPS gave for making this change so Carla, the first big reason CPS gave was the meaning there would be more meaningful academic information provided and I'll give you the quote from them. It says that they, the previous HSAT provided very little information about student performance that PreACT 9 Secure will help families, schools. Help make decisions as ninth graders begin their high school journey. And then it's also aligned with ACT, which will help students prepare for the ACT when they're a junior in high school. Do you feel like, where do you feel that, is that realistic? We're talking about seventh graders at the same time. Do you feel like the test will provide a lot more information?

Carla Pedersen: You know, I think it's probably both. But on the positive side, this is an exam where students are going to continue to have exposure to it. Not just our rising eighth graders who are going to be taking it this fall, but CPS at large and the state of Illinois really anchors on the ACT. They use it as their test in 11th grade and then the PreACT iterations earlier. So now we do have this trajectory, this arc that students are on starting in eighth grade, where you can track and see these trends, see how students are developing across these skill areas. So it does give a much greater through line with this data, where when we were looking at some of these older, more homegrown tasks that were viewed a little bit more in isolation, you couldn't necessarily have those benefits as you are looking at students developing year over year.

Andrew Ferguson: Interesting. Do you feel the same way, Matthew?

Matthew Pietrafetta: I do. I think that this is a huge opportunity for us to, you know, because we often, you know, we talk about this all the time. When we have a student coming in too late in the process, like maybe late in junior year, and they have so much scope and sequence and math or grammar or reading to cover in a finite amount of time when they're super busy with their schoolwork, there's only so much we can do. But to have earlier visibility into the growth of these skills and to be able to lay out like a scaffolded journey for the student through high school to build these skills, which are also really relevant to performance in the classroom and GPA. Right. So the early the more you know, the more you can do, the more you can space out learning, which all the research shows is better than crammed learning. So this is a huge opportunity for us to have a bigger and more profound impact on student growth and achievement over time. And so yeah, I totally agree with Carla.

Andrew Ferguson: I'm just thinking about lots of discussion out there regarding, standardized tests speak to academic skills and ability of students? And this is sort of a nod to at least the state of Illinois believing in that. CPS believing in that, that this is a good measuring stick for academic abilities and it sounds like they're gonna use it for. Beyond just selective enrollment, they'll also be using it for placement in certain classes. So yeah, that's awesome. Anything else on that? I feel like that's a big swing from CPS to say that this test is gonna give more academic information. You feel like, Carla, do you think that families will, from a sense of preparation for this test, What do you think that will change things? Just will they have to devote more time to kind of filling in those content gaps?

Carla Pedersen: I think again when we add in more content areas, in all likelihood it could extend preparation for students. You know, when we had a truncated test of I say just but to meaty areas of reading, comprehension, and math. It was fairly scoped in terms of what students knew they needed to work on. Now adding in the English and the science sections, depending on how a student feels about those content areas and skill sets, yes, it can extend preparation. And I think that's one where we always have to take, you know, a student centered approach and think about where their skills are, what their experience has been, and see what they need to work on. So depending on how they interact with that material, it can very much extend a preparation or at the very least mean that you want to investigate it sooner to know what your student will have to prepare for.

Matthew Pietrafetta: Yeah. Yeah, have an early assessment to understand what you're getting into. So probably not as much of a late start in seventh grade or seventh grade summer be before eighth grade, but an earlier look to know what you're dealing with. At the very least, the good news is they won't feel in any way that preparation was not worthwhile because it will come back to pay dividends later for their ACT preparation. So now they're building a foundation that will be a lasting one directly applicable to their work as sophomores and juniors preparing for the ACT. So at least that where whereas the connection between this the not fully disclosed CPS test for the past decades and then your high school, you know, success and then your further college admissions testing with ACT or SAT was not clear. That that bridge was not, you know, explicit, whereas now the bridge will be explicit, which is at least a good investment of that time that will pay dividends later for the student in high school.

Andrew Ferguson: One final question for either of you. By prepping for this test, does enough of this material transfer over if they are thinking about applying to, like Matthew mentioned earlier, like a parochial school and they're going to be taking the HSPT or an independent school and taking one of the other tests, the ISEE or the SSAT? Are you able to, is there a Venn diagram of sorts where like if you are devoting some time to the PreACT 9 that you're going to help yourself in those other tests?

Carla Pedersen: Fortunately, absolutely. You know, there are of course nuances among these tests and different areas of focus at times. But at their core, they're covering quite a bit of the same content and skills. So when we think of it, the core piece, and actually the core piece that existed on the prior test, but of reading comprehension and math, that's going to be universal across the exams. Again, the question styles and the pace at which you're approaching these questions on the different exams does have nuances. To it. So it's not a complete one-for-one, but at the skill level, when you're really thinking about what am I doing, how am I applying this to the test? It works across all of them. And then it's a little bit of add-in and remove. So for the HSPT, you're also going to have a section. They don't call it the English section, but that covers grammar and editing skills. So those are going to be applicable. There is not a science section on these other exams. So that is going to be more unique. But I view that as a complement to reading comprehension in many ways. Yes, you have the addition of charts, tables, graphs, you know, yes, the scientific component. But a lot of it is analysis and reading comprehension within that. And then you do have on some of the other exams a verbal component as well, so more vocabulary. So that focus does vary on some of the other exams, particularly in the question styles. But again, thinking about the core, vocabulary is so integral in our reading comprehension at large that I don't think it's ever anything that you fully get away from on any of these tests, even if it isn't a discrete section.

Andrew Ferguson: Nice. Just, it feels like they're just so different. Like when families reach out and they have a specific test in mind, it seems like they worry, but they worry in a silo for each one. Not thinking about kind of lot of ways. If you're teaching and learning toward the middle, you're going to cover a lot of the same stuff it sounds like. So that's good.

Carla Pedersen: You are. And I do think, you know, I understand the concerns, of course, for a student to feel comfortable and confident on these exams. And that is where getting exposure to the different formats is important. And frankly, that's something that is improved with the new PreACT 9 Secure because we have so many materials that align with that where you can give a student exposure to what the test will look like definitively rather than at times having to prepare them for a little bit of the unexpected when tests are more up in the air.

Andrew Ferguson: Well, Carla just gave me the best segue possible into the next topic that Matthew, I want to go to you with is that the second reason CPS said that was, you know, this test change is going to be so beneficial is that there's going to be greater transparency. Once again, from CPS says that the HSAT was a mystery to families and students did not have access to materials to prepare. Using the Pre-ACT 9 secure, schools, students, and families will have better information about what to expect on test day.

Matthew Pietrafetta: Well yeah, no, I agree with that and maybe break it down to three levels of transparency that are really helpful. One is transparency like Carla was talking about into what the actual test assesses. An ACT, Iowa-based test that it is, has been a really friendly Midwest homespun exam that has always taken educators very seriously and been very transparent, always in disclosing like what is on its test, what all its conventions are, the distribution of question types. They've disclosed so many forms, official forms over the years. So that's just so different from what we've been dealing with since like 1998 with this CPS exam that is taken through a couple of different iterations that Carla described, but has always been like not released to the public, not disclosed with specifications for what exact curriculum and item types and question stems are gonna be on it and so forth. And we've had to speculate quite a bit. So there's that level of transparency, but there's two others, which I think are really important for us as educators, both on our one-on-one side and our school program side of our work that we do. The transparency that we'll get into what this means for our eighth graders going forward, right? Like we're going to be able to extrapolate out from here's where you are in eighth grade, and if you want to be here by 11th grade, these are specifically the skills you have to build. We've never had a bridge like that from our eighth graders that are working with us to. The juniors of the future that they will one day be when they're testing, we will now. That transparency for us as educators and program designers and curriculum designers is going to be a huge advantage in helping those students going forward. And then the third level of transparency, I'll take this from the school program side. For you know, decades we've been working with high schools, charter high schools, public high schools, private high schools, and we've been, you know, trying to come up with solutions for their Ninth, tenth, eleventh grade students to grow their scores on either the ACT or the SAT, depending on what Illinois is aligned to at the time. And now it's back to ACT. And we've always been starved for information about what that incoming class is like. Because that incoming class was coming in with a bunch of different tests, none of which mapped directly to the ACT. And I've talked to, you know, Chicago principals throughout the years, and they've said, You know, I've got these, you know, it could be any number of different tests, MAP or Iowa or this or that. And I've and that my eighth grader seem be coming in at high percentiles, but then I give them an ACT and they're super low and all these skills. And so all that information from eighth grade to ninth grade wasn't helpful to me to know how to prepare for them. Well, now you're gonna have vertical alignment, which is that system of assessments where eighth grade can hand off clearly in a one-to-one ratio like this equals that. So if you're going into a public high school in Illinois, you're gonna have an ACT score that maps to the ninth-grade PreACT 9 that you're gonna take. So now those educators, and we work with a lot of them trying to prepare to help the freshmen hit the ground running and have a great freshman on track record and really be you know successful in being prepared to build the skills that they need to succeed and be college ready by eleventh grade, now they're gonna have actionable information. Over you know, as of the spring of eighth grade for that incoming class to plan with over the summer, to have their lesson plans ready for September. And that's going to be the best kind of vertical alignment and transparency from eighth grade into ninth grade that the state has had in the 25 years that we've been working with high schools. So I think that bodes really, really well for the data driven instruction that high school educators will be able to do now in a vertically aligned system, which has never been that way. It's never been a consistent assessment from eighth grade into ninth grade and now it will be going forward, which is a big, big step forward, I think, in terms of assessment design. So a really good choice for that reason, and for the success of high schools to be able to use actionable data to really help their freshmen succeed.

Andrew Ferguson: Question to that. And I was thinking about this morning before we gathered. Do you think with that in mind, do you think there's more pressure on the middle schools to make sure that they have these students have reached a certain threshold, you know, to get into these schools or to reach a certain threshold to be at a certain level course, or is the pressure on the high schools that, hey, you're getting these kids with these scores in know, eighth grade into ninth grade, and then you need to be, it's your job to kind of keep that trajectory moving in the upward direction by the time they do get to 11th grade. Or is it both? There a pressure, is there just an immense amount of pressure on both set of teachers and administrators?

Matthew Pietrafetta: And you know, I think I it's a great question. And I think it's at its best, what it could be is it if not pressure, maybe what it could do is produce a consistent focus on what it mean what meeting and exceeding you know, benchmarks means. So we know what that means by the time you get to eleventh grade, easy as clear about what the college readiness benchmarks are, what approaching is, what meeting, what exceeding is. That has not been clear on what the eighth grader that you're graduating necessarily, like what we expect for them to be able to be at, to be on track in that system to get to eleventh grade. But now we'll be able to look at that vertical line data and start to set standards and expectations. And it will produce, you know, if not like pressure, I guess consistent focus and hopefully collaboration you know, among educators to say, well, you can start asking when you have a more consistent assessment and you know, we don't have you know, we don't have what Horace Mann had sort of described in early education theory as a universal education in this country, right? It's a lot of this stuff is just done on the state or district level. These decisions are made about curriculum and assessments and so forth. But the benefits of having like universal assessment or let's say consistent assessment is that then you can start asking questions about consistent standards, consistent curriculum, consistent instructional strategies. And when you're teaching towards all different, you know, when the goalpost is changing depending on a million different assessments, it's hard to know what the best practices are. So I think that's where this is an opportunity, a really good opportunity to ask some really good questions about what are our standards, what is it, what is the expected you know, graduation score for An eighth grader for in a successful eighth grade program, and that gives a ninth grade teacher the opportunity to be on track to get them to the 11th grade standards that we want to reach as a district and as a state and so forth. So I think those are all great opportunities and how the you know how educators use the information, how administrators educate around it and set standards and policies and so forth, that's where all the hard work will be. But I think once you have a an aligned system that is transparent and that people can compare apples to apples, that's the first step. And they can build really good practices around that.

Andrew Ferguson: So as we wrap up, we'd like to make certain we provide families with a takeaway from this. Matthew, do you have a specific takeaway that you feel would benefit listeners?

Matthew Pietrafetta: Yeah, I think that this is a really great opportunity, whether you are, you know, in seventh, eighth grade or right now thinking about you know, applying to selective enrollment high schools, and you're now able to look at your next steps in a much, much broader, more like integrated plan all the way through eleventh grade. Because what you're coming in with this PreACT is going to give you an absolute forecast into the skills that you need to grow to be a college ready student. And you can, and if you already have some ideas of the schools that you might want to go to, you can start thinking from where you start, you know, where you need to grow. And then you have that visibility and that vertical alignment to say, okay, I should probably do a little bit, I should probably work on this in ninth grade and this in tenth grade and this in eleventh grade. So you're gonna have, as Carla put it earlier, a much clearer through line for your development. And then a with that same theme of vertical alignment for school administrators. And we work with a lot of eighth grade programs and we've been, you know, teaching the selector enrollment exam. Now we're gonna be able to work with the those eighth graders and have dialogue with a through line into the ninth graders with the high schools that we work with in those schools and work with them with their data to prepare their teachers better for ninth grade. So with the vertical alignment, there's just gonna be a greater opportunity for clar clarity, transparency, planning, just better instruction that has longer term, more continuous impact possibly on students. So that's my take on it.

Andrew Ferguson: Carla, from a parent's perspective, would be the takeaway you would tell them? This is what you should be doing to deal with this situation.

Carla Pedersen: So Matthew spoke to the long view, but I'm gonna speak to the immediate view. I think the biggest benefit with this test is that we know what it is and your student can know what it is. So I would say the first step is have them try a diagnostic or practice PreACT 9 Secure. See where they are, see what they need to focus on and how they're going to best use the time between now and the test this fall. Or if they're younger, you know, then they don't need to take it immediately, but they have that ability to do it early and see when, you know, when they are approaching eighth grade what test they'll be doing. We're big fans of data in general, but I would say this is a really great opportunity to get that granular information that didn't exist to the degree it does now on the prior test. So take that to your advantage.

Andrew Ferguson: Well, thank you both. This was a lot. It's a lot and I can't imagine being a parent of a seventh grade student right now. This is a lot of change.

Carla Pedersen: Lot of change.

Matthew Pietrafetta: Change but getting better change in the right direction.

Carla Pedersen: Yes.

Andrew Ferguson: Agreed. Awesome. Thank you guys.

Carla Pedersen: Okay.

Matthew Pietrafetta: Take care.